Building on "The very best racer" thread...

General Sailing Discussion
Post Reply
DanBerger
Professional
Posts: 280
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 3:29 pm
Boat Make/Model: SC 15 w/ spin!, SC 19
Location: Norfolk, VA

Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by DanBerger »

Bill's talk about bringing back the SC15 got me thinking--Why can't Aquarius build new boats in different configurations? For instance, a Supercat 15, 17 and 20 and then an ARC 15, 17 and 20? It seems like it would be easier to sell base models and then let the owners upgrade.

The ARC 15 would have all the bells and whistles of the ARC 17, just on a 15 foot platform. The ARC's are great ready-to-race boats but are expensive because they have all that good stuff on them. Plus, Tom and Matt's craftsmanship and use of superior parts adds to the cost to manufacture.

So, enter the 'new' Supercat 15, 17 and 20. All based on the legacy boats but with a few modern updates. Some upgrades would be available a la carte and then the alternative would be a full-blown race ready ARC equivalent.

Base model Supercat (15, 17):
Standard Supercat hulls, solid beams
Standard Supercat heavy duty rigging
Supercat righting system consisting of hayfield levers and buoyant mast
All Harken tackle consisting of Harken Jib bocks, 57mm 6:1 Harken mainsheet blocks, Harken full beam length traveler and car.
Supercat trampoline, bolt rope on rear beam, wrap-around on front beam
Standard 6oz colored Dacron pin head main and jib (in fabulous new patterns!) considered recreational sails
Supercat tubular battens
Supercat Fiberglass rudders
Mast head Halyard hooking system
Fiberglass telescoping tiller extension

Upgrades (15, 17):
Heavy-duty (White) Dacon pinhead Race main sail
Heavy-duty (White) Dacon square top Race main sail
Heavy-duty (White) Dacon Race jib sail
Heavy-duty (White) Dacon self-tacking Race jib sail
Heavy-duty Laminate pinhead Race main sail
Heavy-duty laminate square top Race main sail
Heavy-duty Laminate Race jib sail
Heavy-duty laminate self-tacking Race jib sail
Self-tacking jib in 6oz colored Dacron
Self-tacking jib set up (requires 4 bolt-rope trampoline)
Supercat bottom MAXX batten
Snuffing Spinnaker system
Roller Furling Spinnaker system
7:1 or higher Main sheet system
ARC dual jib line/traveler control system (use w/self-tacking jib)
Carbon Fiber rudders
Upgraded downhaul system (6:1 with dual swivel exit blocks)
Soccer net style netted trampoline
Forward trampoline (for self-tacking and/or spinnaker equipped boats)
Roller furling standard jib (recreational sail only)
carbon hulls?
carbon Mast?

Base model Supercat (20):
12' Telescoping beam with wire traveler
Standard rig configuration
Same other base model options as the 15 and 17

Upgrades Supercat 20
Solid beams with Harken traveler
Tall rig configuration
Telescoping trailer
Same other upgrades as the 15 and 17
Bill Roberts
Expert
Posts: 515
Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
Location: Stuart, Florida

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by Bill Roberts »

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your suggestions. Tom Is willing to build and rig any boat he has a mold for
and outfit that boat with any rigging and sails the customer might want. There are no
hard lines in rigging and sails. Whatever the customer wants is what he may have
and with a smile.
What Tom needs are seriously interested customers. He has got the best beach cat products
in the world right now; all he needs are customers to buy them.
DanBerger
Professional
Posts: 280
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 3:29 pm
Boat Make/Model: SC 15 w/ spin!, SC 19
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by DanBerger »

I agree on the quality of the boats, but no one knows about them! There are still people plunking down good money to buy crappy Hobies and they could be buying a much better boat, instead!
Bill Roberts
Expert
Posts: 515
Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
Location: Stuart, Florida

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by Bill Roberts »

I know what you mean, Dan. The simple sounding solution is to advertise. Tom Has tried that and no success.
Before him, Boston Whaler spent several hundred thousand dollars and no success. Before that Steve Edmonds and I won the One OF A Kind Regatta by a big margin beating all the Hobie and Prindle and NACRA National Champions and Rock Stars boat for boat and on corrected time. Still no sales. There is no bigger horn than that! Still no sales success. What is the answer, Dan? The best product won't sell. Why not?
havliii
Professional
Posts: 272
Joined: March 27th, 2011, 8:12 pm
Boat Make/Model: SuperCat 19, Modded SC20
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by havliii »

The list of BANKRUPT boat builders probably exceeds that of Santa's, I think offering Tom advice is a fool's errand. The oldest adage in the restaurant biz is 'expand and go broke.' Getting bigger is expensive and fraught with risk. The only way to help Aquarius survive is to go sail your ARC or Supercat, kick some butt, let others sail your boat, talk about the product and then SELL the product. I brought 2 more sailors into the clan this season, one by selling my own SC19, and two by orchestrating the sale of an ARC 21 to a new believer. I cloned myself twice by doing this, that is the only way we can help the brand. (and btw I still own a SC20)
DanBerger
Professional
Posts: 280
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 3:29 pm
Boat Make/Model: SC 15 w/ spin!, SC 19
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by DanBerger »

I wouldn't say that I'm giving advice, I don't think I'm in a position to offer any, I'm just pointing out that nobody knows that you can actually buy a new Supercat, especially a 15 or 20. Good used Supercats are hard to find and parts are kind of getting hard to find as well. Hobie and Performance (Nacra) are selling a bunch of new boats, and that's only because people know about them. Of course, Hobie is making a killing on plastic boats, but they found a niche.

Specifically, good hulls, masts and sails are hard to find. I just drove to Buffalo (12 hrs there and 14 hrs back) in the snow to get a 17 mast and other parts. That's ridiculous! Try finding a SC19 02 20 Daggerboard!?

I have been racing my 15 and cleaning up. Several people have wanted to get one because of mine but can't find them. I have moved two people in my area to get 15s and one to get a 17 (He's placing a big order with Tom right now). I also sold my 20 locally and we might see an increase in all of those Supercats. There are a few 19s available but they aren't ideal for this area. I had one other person about to buy that 15 in Maryland, but he dragged his feet and missed out. He ended up getting a Hobie 16 because it was available. I am supporting all kinds of boats in my area, I think that is the only reason we still have a fleet.

If I could get my hands on some 15s, I'm sure someone in my fleet would buy them.
Bill Roberts
Expert
Posts: 515
Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
Location: Stuart, Florida

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by Bill Roberts »

Dan, you and Havliii are right; the best way to sell boats now is the personal approach, be a spark plug.
As a matter of fact, that is the way most Hobies were sold in its beginning. There was no dealership system
when the Hobie thing first took off. It was spark plug people who were fired up about about beach cat sailing
and they took more people sailing and they bought boats and they took more people sailing and they bought boats.
The expansion was geometric and in a couple of years there was a need for a dealership system but the train had already left the station.
The expansion was growing rapidly and there was no stopping it. The Hobie thing had the people's eye and no amount of advertising
could change their minds. Hobie products had their attention because of the crowd, the fun together, the group etc. If you bought a different boat back then , you were the lone ranger. Who wants to be the lone ranger even if the boat is better??? So guys and girls, if you want the class to grow, the ball is in your hands. Take people sailing, take them on picnics with the boat and help them find a boat for themselves and their family. Tom Haberman and I will support you 100%.
havliii
Professional
Posts: 272
Joined: March 27th, 2011, 8:12 pm
Boat Make/Model: SuperCat 19, Modded SC20
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by havliii »

Dan, I love you man, we are different as different can be, but share a common bond in our love of Supercats. PARTS AIN'T HARD TO FIND!!! CALL TOM and ANY part you want can be had. If you meant USED PARTS then okay somewhat harder. Buddy Jeff just bought an entire SC19 parts boat for 1k and now has a total of 5 daggers, 5 rudders, 2 masts, 4 hulls etc etc. $3500 will take down a SC20 in EX condition, fixed beams, great sails, great boat. No, it is not my boat and I ain't tellin' where................. they are out there.
DanBerger
Professional
Posts: 280
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 3:29 pm
Boat Make/Model: SC 15 w/ spin!, SC 19
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by DanBerger »

OK, OK, I meant USED parts. try finding a supercat mast!! Sounds like I have the 17 equivalent to your friend's 19 collection.

I know there are boats all over the place, it is a matter of finding them. I have pulled boats out of swamps and storage units and back yards for 15 years. Supercats are pretty rare, especially on the East Coast.

There are two 19s for sale in the Outer Banks right now, but they are ROUGH. That's actually an insult to rough boats, but, hey, they are available. The problem with 19s is that they end up parts boats for 20s and then we get another Supercat relegated to a floating dock (the 19 hulls).

I bought out William & Mary's entire Hobie fleet about 10 years ago, I got like 6 complete Hobie 16s and a ton of parts. I ended up cutting up most of the boats and selling them off for parts and scrap aluminum. In the deal was a Supercat 15 sail BRAND NEW, still in the bag. At that time, I didn't know a thing about Supercats and sold the sail for something stupid like $100. I kick myself all the time about that now, but the only thing that grounds me is that it was a 'caliente' and... You know how I feel about red.
DanBerger
Professional
Posts: 280
Joined: May 3rd, 2004, 3:29 pm
Boat Make/Model: SC 15 w/ spin!, SC 19
Location: Norfolk, VA

Re: Building on "The very best racer" thread...

Post by DanBerger »

You know, It would be very interesting to see a price list or a catalog. 'Kit' pricing for things like the upgrades mentioned earlier would be extremely cool, too.

And pictures of the parts would be very helpful. But, I'm sure Tom and Matt don't have the time for that. The process now (I'm sure) is pretty annoying for Tom because we go back and forth on a parts list before I place an order. I think I'm on my 6th or 7th email on a big SC order right now!
Post Reply