America's Cup

[fjviola]

First self-tacking jib appeared on the ARC22, though, it was 'earlier' on the SC19?

franklin VIOLA

[Bill Roberts]

Matt,
I was a member at the Miami Yatch Club in 1985 and kept my RC27 there for a year with a self tacking jib on it. I pointed it out to people and there was no interest.
Eric had a SC17 at the same club in 1989. It had a self tacking jib on it and no interest. I have tried to talk the local Corsair dealer into trying a self tacking jib on one of his boats and no interest.
The local sailmaker here does sails and rigging. I have told him about the system and no interest. To me it is a natural for cruising boats.
People guess that if you do away with a foot or two of overlapp between the jib leech and the mast, the boat is going to stop. This is not so. When I first rigged a self tacking jib, 1983 or so, I was concerned that if I did away with the overlapp, the boat would slow down. This did not happen. I had speedometers on the boat and I checked the speed often and I found no loss in boat speed with the non overlapping jib and tacking became sweet. The self tacking jib, the ARC system only, tacks the jib "better than a person can do it". It also does a great job of jibing the jib better than a crew can do it.
Bill
PS I think Tom made the self tacking jib standard on ARC boats in 91 or 92.
PS2 The ARC self tacvking jib tacks and jibes the jib" better that a person can do it "because it brings the jib across exactly coordinated with the relative wind direction during the maneuver. A person either pulls the jib across too fast or to slow. The ARC self tacker is perfectly coordinated with the relative wind angle during the tack or jibe and minimises jib drag during the maneuver. It also trims the jib in for the new point of sail exactly when the jib fills on the new tack, not too soon or not too late, just right.

[fjviola]

Re: Fuller Rounded Hulls
When I made the move 'way' up from a Prindle 16 to an SC17, I did have trouble (at first) bringing her 'fuller rounded hulls' around into the wind and washing machine seas we sometimes get in Galveston Bay. However, after consulting with the 'factory' (Bill), we started putting weight (crew) as far forward as conditions would allow (sometimes trapped out forward of the crossbar) and perform a 'rolling tack'. Then as soon as the jib started bringing her around, we quickly shifted our 'ballast' athwartship so the stick remained vertical (vs 'bobbing'). Practice made the procedure better and better each time we left the beach.

Upon moving 'way way' up to the ARC21, the same 'ballast forward' technique is applied (note: daggerboards "Forward" of the crossbar really open up the trampoline area and make this an Incredible 'beach cat'). However, with the addition of Bill Roberts' meticulous 'calculus' designed self-tacking jib, bringing the ARC21 'fuller rounded hulls' through the wind as compared to our SC17 fire-drill is like a well choreographed ballet. If, that can be 'said' of a 230 lbs skipper

Still, we have have not come close to realizing the potential sailing Performance and FUN of the ARC21 without a whole lot more "PRACTICE".

Last, I apologize to the forum for offending any patriotic Americans with my poor attempt at levity in challenging Larry's egotistic crusade to win at any cost by representing the 'home team' with a boat built by a Kiwi contractor and Kiwi components (master boatwright Mark "Tugboat" Turner and fellow Down-Under wharf rats, most carbon components, and the "WINGs") and crewed by more multi-nationals than a refugee boat headed for S. Florida (11Sept13: American tactician blamed for 'home teams' dismal performance is promptly replaced by Aussie skipper with England's most decorated 'home team' sailor). It's just that my allegiance to the Stars and Stripes (also non-bubba) is not 'blind'.

franklin VIOLA

[J Drew]

There was no offense taken and I don't think there's a need to apologize for expressing your opinion. I admire your knowledge of the facts and admit my naive attempt to defend Team USA at a challenging time for them.

[fjviola]

J Drew
No worries.
Even with an ARC21, I am envious of your SC20.
We should meet in N. Florida (brown-water Galveston sucks after a while), invite other SC/ARC sailors, and flaunt our fuller rounded hull "Ladies" around your mates
franklin VIOLA

[gahamby]

Help me out here. Team USA was penalized for adding weight to and lengthening the kingposts on an AC 45. What were they hoping to accomplish? I cannot find a proper technical discussion on the web.
Whoa Nelly! Did you see the Kiwis almost screw the pooch?

[J Drew]

I'm glad I'm not a dog at your house

[Bill Roberts]

I looked at the jibs on both boats today and I saw no jib overlap on the Oracle boat. The jibs looked identical except the New Zeeland boat has a square top jib. More beach cat technology: square top sails/wings and self tacking jibs. The US boat is behind on self tacking jibs and square top jibs. I wonder why that is ?????
Bill

[Matt Haberman]

Bill had an unfair advantage on the answer to the question of when the Self-Tacking Jibs first appeared on the ARC products...

But here is the answer I was going to give:

The RC-27 was first to have the Self-tacking jib back in 1985. When the ARC-22 (SuperCat 22) was introduced in 1991 it came stock with a self-tacking jib system. Around that same time we also offered the self-tacking jib system as an option on both the SC-19XL & the SC-17. The rest is history as the Self-Tacking jib system is now standard on the ARC-17, 21, 22, RC-27 & 30...... Since that time a lot of other beach cats have come out with self-tacking jib systems, but most of them have missed many of the subtle details that make the system work as well as what you will find on the ARC / RC product line.

So much for not having found their way to modern boats yet

[fjviola]

An Interesting Read:

'The Peacock and the Raven'
Larry Ellison's vision of the America's Cup comes to life in San Francisco. But is it too bold for its own good?

"You can be a rooster one day, and a feather duster the next, mate."

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/968 ... -francisco

franklin VIOLA

[havliii]

Got a chance to watch the replay of Race 4, Oracle won the start and held the lead throughout. Proving that they can stay out front is a big boost to the confidence of the Oracle boat. Spithill now knows he has enough raw speed to hang onto a lead, the starts should get interesting. If Oracle can roll over Emirates on the heavy air windward legs, it's game over.

Windspeed may be the determinant factor, seems the boats are tuned for slightly different wind velocities. Tweaking the boat will cost either team a race if they don't dial it in perfect before the start. Each boat can call a 'time out' if they don't like the 'feel' at the start for any reason. This rule could come into play near the end of the regatta if the score is close.

The 'head games' are just beginning.

Let's take this thread back to the AC! Here's what's gonna happen, they (the powers that be) want this thing to end on Saturday or Sunday. I expect it to go the full distance all 17 races, expect several more wind 'postponements,' expect that Emirates will take a 'time out' for additional postponement, expect some 'hysterical announcer drama' over the Oracle comeback. Then expect Oracle to win. Larry laid off, like a billion dollars when the odds in Vegas were 600-1 against him, thus when he wins he will be richer than Bill Gates, which is what he really wanted all along.

[J Drew]

The opera isn't over 'til the fat lady sings
Somewhere in San Francisco there is a big ol' fat girl singing "The Star Spangled Banner"
Even if she has an Australian accent, it still sounds good to me!

Of course there is no offense intended toward any large ladies out there,
'cause they need lovin' too.

[gahamby]

That was an awesome race. A clean start and just plain sailing skill. I would love to know what Oracle Team USA did to their boat to achieve the boat speeds they accomplished. Their change in after guard was critical. They had one pair of eyes looking aft and one pair looking forward. That let Spithill handle that beast of a boat. Next time in SF.

[Laz]

I look forward to learning exactly how Team USA improved their boat speed. They were significantly faster in the later races. Do you think it was something in the foil design?

Also, what is their definition of overlapped? At one time, wasn't there a minimum distance (forestay to rudder post, or some such)? And how do you stay clear when you pivot on the foils/blades, and your stern slides to leeward?

A tabby is to a jaguar, as my SC15 is to an AC72. Same genus, but a different animal altogether. Still, they're all cats at heart.

[Bill Roberts]

When I was racing monohulls back in the 60s the leeward boat had to have "mast abeam" relative to the windward boat before it could luff a windward boat. Mast abeam ment the sailors in the leeward boat had to be abeam of the mast on the windward boat. This ment that the leeward boat had to be about half a boat length ahead of the windward boat before it could luff a windward boat. This worked. Mechanically the leeward boat could luff a windward boat and both boats could head up and not bump each other.
This newer defination of luffing a windward boat as soon as there is any overlapp is mechanically disfunctional. If the windward boat heads up, his transom comes down and bumps the leeward boat's bow when he is responding to the leeward boat's luff. It is asking the windward boat to do something it can't do. This rule needs to be corrected. Sailboats steer from the rear end not the front end like cars.
Bill