Here you can see the ring that I am using.
So can someone tell me if I have the correct hardware? Any ideas what I am doing wrong? If I rotate the hook further out to catch the ring then it deflects the halyard significantly making raising the sail very hard. If I slide it back far enough to clear the halyard then it won't hook!
Any suggestions? Am I using the correct hook?
SC20 Main Halyard
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Matt Haberman
- Administrator
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- Location: Minnesota
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Eric,
Which way do you put the knot on the ring when raising the sail, towards the sail track? Appears to me that if the knot is towards the sail track, the ring would be aligned with the hook.
Another part of the equation you have not shown is the head board on your sail. If the hole in the head board is too far back (or forward for that matter) it too can make it difficult when raising the sail. If you can get a picture of the sail in the mast track with the shackle attached and pulled tight it might help to diagnose the problem.
One other note, we have gone away from the ring with the loop on top, but I am not sure if that will solve your problem or not.
Which way do you put the knot on the ring when raising the sail, towards the sail track? Appears to me that if the knot is towards the sail track, the ring would be aligned with the hook.
Another part of the equation you have not shown is the head board on your sail. If the hole in the head board is too far back (or forward for that matter) it too can make it difficult when raising the sail. If you can get a picture of the sail in the mast track with the shackle attached and pulled tight it might help to diagnose the problem.
One other note, we have gone away from the ring with the loop on top, but I am not sure if that will solve your problem or not.
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Eric2101
- Professional
- Posts: 205
- Joined: August 16th, 2004, 5:42 am
- Boat Make/Model: Supercat 15
- Location: Davie, FL.
main halyard
I use ring without the Aussie twist and usually have no issues hooking or unhooking. You need to make sure that you are into the wind.
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Matt Haberman
- Administrator
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- Location: Minnesota
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Thanks. I really like the way you connect the halyard to the ring, I could see that working much better than tied on top. It would allow the hook to move a little more freely and it also pushes the hook in slightly. I'm hoping to try this out tonight and see how it looks and take some pictures. I'll keep you posted.
It looks like there is a figure 8 knot in the end of the halyard. Is there a smaller ring welded inside the large ring that the figure 8 knot it stopped up against?
-Eric
It looks like there is a figure 8 knot in the end of the halyard. Is there a smaller ring welded inside the large ring that the figure 8 knot it stopped up against?
-Eric
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Matt Haberman
- Administrator
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- Location: Minnesota
- Contact:
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Bill Roberts
- Expert
- Posts: 515
- Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
- Location: Stuart, Florida
Sail Raising Problem
Eric.
Step number one is to find the source of the problem.
Step 1. Hang a known weight on the halyard and raise it by pulling on the end of the halyard as if you were raising the mainsail. A gallon of water weighs about 8.3 pounds.
Step 2. If the pull to raise the gallon of water or known weight is only slightly greater than the known weight, then the problem is not the halyard but is the sail.
Step 3. Older sails have probably had the bolt rope/luff tape replaced. If this has been done by an inexperienced sailmaker, he has probably screwed it up good. He could use too large a replacement rope diameter. He could reinstall the headboard and or batten pocket protectors too close to the bolt rope.
Also the rope half of the halyard has probably been replaced and it may be too large in diameter or have a sloppy/lumpy splice. If this is the source of the severe drag/pull, it will occcurr suddenly when the sail is about halfway up the mast.
Bill
Step number one is to find the source of the problem.
Step 1. Hang a known weight on the halyard and raise it by pulling on the end of the halyard as if you were raising the mainsail. A gallon of water weighs about 8.3 pounds.
Step 2. If the pull to raise the gallon of water or known weight is only slightly greater than the known weight, then the problem is not the halyard but is the sail.
Step 3. Older sails have probably had the bolt rope/luff tape replaced. If this has been done by an inexperienced sailmaker, he has probably screwed it up good. He could use too large a replacement rope diameter. He could reinstall the headboard and or batten pocket protectors too close to the bolt rope.
Also the rope half of the halyard has probably been replaced and it may be too large in diameter or have a sloppy/lumpy splice. If this is the source of the severe drag/pull, it will occcurr suddenly when the sail is about halfway up the mast.
Bill
Well I won't say it was easy but I did finally get it figured out. We laid the mast down in the shop and worked on it for probably over an hour trying all sort of different things. In the end it came down to flipping the shackle around and using the proper knot. Here is a pic of the good setup:
We went sailing over memorial day weekend and it worked flawlessly. The sail went up and down decently (still harder than it should be, I think Bill is right about the bolt rope) but it hooked and unhooked perfectly! It has never worked this well before so I am very happy!
Here are a couple pics of us over the weekend:
We had a blast and the GPS data log showed us doing a little over 20 mph for several of the runs. I live for days like that.
Thank you guys for your help and support through this, I really appreciate the community we have here.
-Eric
We went sailing over memorial day weekend and it worked flawlessly. The sail went up and down decently (still harder than it should be, I think Bill is right about the bolt rope) but it hooked and unhooked perfectly! It has never worked this well before so I am very happy!
Here are a couple pics of us over the weekend:
We had a blast and the GPS data log showed us doing a little over 20 mph for several of the runs. I live for days like that.
Thank you guys for your help and support through this, I really appreciate the community we have here.
-Eric
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Bill Roberts
- Expert
- Posts: 515
- Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
- Location: Stuart, Florida
Halyard Tension Problem
Eric,
What happened to the halyard tension problem? Has it gone away? What happened to the 150 pound pull required to raise the mainsail? What you are showing pictures of and talking about now is a halyard lock problem. You have a Skip Elliot mainsail, luff curve and bolt rope made for a NACRA, and a Hobie cat main halyard shackle and ring and trying to get them to work with a Supercat halyard lock
arm and initially you rig it like a Hobie Cat and the system won't work. Of course it won't work until you rig it like a Supercat system. If you owned a Dodge automobile, would you go to the Ford dealer for a new wheel and the Chevrolet dealer for a new carbuator. Put this combination together and car doesn't steer right and it runs rough. My point is: go the the SC factory and you will get quick service, excellent advice and at a fair price. Next day deliver is available to Hawaii. No problems!
Bill
What happened to the halyard tension problem? Has it gone away? What happened to the 150 pound pull required to raise the mainsail? What you are showing pictures of and talking about now is a halyard lock problem. You have a Skip Elliot mainsail, luff curve and bolt rope made for a NACRA, and a Hobie cat main halyard shackle and ring and trying to get them to work with a Supercat halyard lock
arm and initially you rig it like a Hobie Cat and the system won't work. Of course it won't work until you rig it like a Supercat system. If you owned a Dodge automobile, would you go to the Ford dealer for a new wheel and the Chevrolet dealer for a new carbuator. Put this combination together and car doesn't steer right and it runs rough. My point is: go the the SC factory and you will get quick service, excellent advice and at a fair price. Next day deliver is available to Hawaii. No problems!
Bill
Bill,
OK, I am a little confused. I have owned this boat for 17 years or so but obviously did not buy it new. Aside from the ring hook what is not original/correct? I have talked to Tom on several occasions about this and based on his feedback replaced the halyard and sheeves. Is there something wrong with the sail? You said the bolt rope and luff curve is for a Nacra, I have no idea how that happened. I assume that could be a problem, right?
The pull force didn't seem too bad this weekend, I believe it was mostly fixed when I moved the mast hook away from the halyard a little (they rubbed quite a bit before). Maybe the Nacra luff is partially to blame for this?
I hope I didn't come off wrong, I love this boat, it is a blast to sail. The mast hooking has been my biggest complaint but I have it working really nice now. But if you can give me more insight as to what isn't correct maybe that will help me even more.
I really appreciate your feedback and the support I receive from Tom.
-Eric
OK, I am a little confused. I have owned this boat for 17 years or so but obviously did not buy it new. Aside from the ring hook what is not original/correct? I have talked to Tom on several occasions about this and based on his feedback replaced the halyard and sheeves. Is there something wrong with the sail? You said the bolt rope and luff curve is for a Nacra, I have no idea how that happened. I assume that could be a problem, right?
The pull force didn't seem too bad this weekend, I believe it was mostly fixed when I moved the mast hook away from the halyard a little (they rubbed quite a bit before). Maybe the Nacra luff is partially to blame for this?
I hope I didn't come off wrong, I love this boat, it is a blast to sail. The mast hooking has been my biggest complaint but I have it working really nice now. But if you can give me more insight as to what isn't correct maybe that will help me even more.
I really appreciate your feedback and the support I receive from Tom.
-Eric
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Bill Roberts
- Expert
- Posts: 515
- Joined: November 17th, 2003, 9:13 pm
- Location: Stuart, Florida
main Halyard problem
Hi Eric,
I'm glad the problem is solved! That's great! Somewhere along the thread I thought I read about a Skip Elliot sail, a new sail. When I looked at the picture you included, I saw an old well worn luff rope end so that did not fit the comments too well. But, on the Aquarius Halyard and Ring they are welded together. This is not the case for the Hobie part. On reason for the weld is so that when the mast and head of the sail are rotated in opposite directions, the ring rotates with the shackle which is perpendicular to the headboard and this makes the ring come off of the lock finger, therefore sail released. Without the weld between the ring and shackle, the shackle can turn and the ring not turn or not turn enough to come off the lock finger. Therefore you may have try several times to get the lock to release. This can be especially difficult in light winds when it is difficult to get the mast and sail headboard to rotate in opposite directions. Sometimes you might have to pull the clew of the mainsail over the port hull while the sailtrack on the mast is rotated to starboard to get the headboard of the sail to swing away from the lock finger. This problem can be aggravated when the ring can stay rotated with the finger and not release when the head of the sail and shackle are partially rotated away from each other.
Bill.
PS The sailing pictures look great, much fun.
I'm glad the problem is solved! That's great! Somewhere along the thread I thought I read about a Skip Elliot sail, a new sail. When I looked at the picture you included, I saw an old well worn luff rope end so that did not fit the comments too well. But, on the Aquarius Halyard and Ring they are welded together. This is not the case for the Hobie part. On reason for the weld is so that when the mast and head of the sail are rotated in opposite directions, the ring rotates with the shackle which is perpendicular to the headboard and this makes the ring come off of the lock finger, therefore sail released. Without the weld between the ring and shackle, the shackle can turn and the ring not turn or not turn enough to come off the lock finger. Therefore you may have try several times to get the lock to release. This can be especially difficult in light winds when it is difficult to get the mast and sail headboard to rotate in opposite directions. Sometimes you might have to pull the clew of the mainsail over the port hull while the sailtrack on the mast is rotated to starboard to get the headboard of the sail to swing away from the lock finger. This problem can be aggravated when the ring can stay rotated with the finger and not release when the head of the sail and shackle are partially rotated away from each other.
Bill.
PS The sailing pictures look great, much fun.
