Hobie 16

General Sailing Discussion
gahamby
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Boat Make/Model: SuperCat 15#315
Location: Falls Church VA 22042

Re: Hobie 16

Post by gahamby »

A 15 is already a fine handful. A 17 rig on a 15 would be out of hand. The hull design ans sail plan are timeless masterpieces, all that needs to be f@#ked with are the minor hardware choices made a long time ago. That's just the fun of these boats when you're not sailing. My boat looks fast sitting in the yard. I'm gonna give her a rip tomorrow.
gahamby
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by gahamby »

Perhaps you gents should get a room.

Robert: Bring it. :twisted:[/quote]
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

You are right Robert. It all depends on the wind strength you sail in. If you sail/drift around in light air most of the time, then a larger rig will help you sail a little faster. If you live/sail where there is usually a nice breeze, the rig that came with your boat good. If you sail where it is really windy, then a smaller rig is faster, Remember the pressure of the wind increases with the square of the wind speed. When the wind speed increases from five to ten, that's nice. When it increases from 20 to 25, let's go home. That's no fun and it breaks things.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Roberts on August 15th, 2013, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

You are right Pro. It happens all the time. People who don't understand put 'tall rigs' on boats in windy places and think
they are going to go faster. They don't understand about the righting moment limit and they end up being very disappointed.
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

Everybody should understand that the "tall rigs" were done for sailors who lived/sailed in areas where the winds were light. The first tall rig was put together for the One Of A Kind Regatta put on by Yachting Magazine. The regatta was held in New Orleans in the summer, light winds. The boat won every heat boat for boat by big margins sailing against the best and the big names from Hobie and Prindle and NACRA. A standard SC20 sailed by Henery Bossit won the regatta overall and the tall rig was second on corrected time using a California handicapp system.
The best size rig for any boat is a rig that matches the wind conditions you normally sail in. A tall rig on a windy day is slower and harder to sail than a standard size rig. On a windy day a short rig is faster than a standard rig. A tall rig anything in Hawaii or on San Francisco Bay is a total missmatch. All of our boats have a fixed amount of maximum righting moment. Once that righting moment is saturated, that is max performance; adding more sail area will only slow you down and might make you pitchpole.
Bill
SC15Av8or
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Boat Make/Model: SC15 / SC19
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by SC15Av8or »

Great explanation on rig size and sailing conditions Bill. I like the size of my rig. It is juuust right !!! Like Gahamby said its now a matter of after market equipment.
Lifes 2 short for cheap GROG
SuperCat 15/19Av8or
Kevin Keller
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Boat Make/Model: SC-20, ARC22
Location: Honolulu

Re: Hobie 16

Post by Kevin Keller »

What winds are the ARC-22 made for?
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

Dan,
You have a very good point. Tall rigs were designed for sailing areas where there was/is little to no wind. The right size rig for the area you sail in is the rig that makes your boat just barely fly a hull when the boat is sailing with max righting moment. That is the perfect match. To put a large rig on a boat sailing in windy conditions like San Francisco Bay or Hawaii makes no sense at all and the boat will be slower than if it had a standard size rig on it. Think about the boats racing across the Atlantic ocean. What did the sail plan look like when these boats were averaging 30+knots for hour after hour? They had a little jib up just barely large enough to see and the mainsail went about half way up the mast. This is the size sail plan that goes very fast in windy conditions. This amounts to about 50% of normal sail area at about 50% height off the water. This makes the max overturning moment and pitching moment about 1/4th of what they were with full sail area up. This allows the wind pressure to increase by a factor of four before these limits are reached and the boat speed has about doubled what it normally is at max limits.
So, if you want to go really fast in windy conditions, put a 15 rig on a SC20 and let her rip.
ultrarunner
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Location: Webster, NY

Re: Hobie 16

Post by ultrarunner »

We need a good reefing solution!
gahamby
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by gahamby »

It's gonna be a bitch with a masthead halyard ring and a loose footed main.
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

Hi gahamby,
I like your optimism. On the mast install another halyard lock finger at the point you want to lower the sail by, example 4ft.
The rest of the mods are done at a sailmakers. Repeat the main downhaul gromet pattern 4ft up from the foot. Install another clew corner patch 4ft up at the leech. Install another mainsheet attachment plate at the clew corner 4ft up that hangs out to the side of the sail. Install 4 small gromets equally spaced across the sail 4.5ft up from the foot. Roll the bottom 4ft of the sail up including the bottom batten for approximately 4ft. Tie this roll of sail along the new foot position to the four gromets equally spaced across the sail. Re rig the downhaul. Clip the mainsheet to the new clew plate and let's go sailing with a reefed mainsail. Now that wasn't so bad was it. Did you know that SC used to sell boats with reefing capability? It was an option.

In place of the second clew plate, you could have your sailmaker install a strapped in heavy duty gromet in the second clew patch. Run a short loop of rope through the gromet and clip the mainsheet to this loop.

Now you are ready to go "bear hunting with a switch" on a windy day.
Bill
Matt Haberman
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Matt Haberman »

GAHamby & Bill,

Instead of a second hook we have done this with a wire pendent attached to the top of the mainsail. The halyard ring connects to the end of this pendent and still hooks at the top of the mast. To get the ring to un-hook easily we tie a small diameter (1/8") piece of low stretch line to the ring and then to the clew of the sail once the main is hoisted. When you go to unhook you can pull on the small line to get the ring off the hook.

I prefer this method over the second hook as we have see issues of the shackle on the halyard ring getting caught on the second (lower) hook, making it impossible to get the sail down without tipping the boat over...
Matt Haberman
Aquarius Sail Inc.
http://www.aquarius-sail.com
Bill Roberts
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Bill Roberts »

Hi Matt,
I think that will work also as long as the mainsail has the hard braid boltrope on it. Most aftermarket sails come with cheap soft bolt rope. The halyard lock finger carries loads in two directions. 1. It holds the sail up, vertical load. 2. It also counters the aft pulling load on the bolt rope at the head of the sail and keeps the soft bolt rope from pulling out of the mast sail track.
Whatever mast rotation unhooks the halyard ring at the top of the mast will also work as the halyard ring passes the second halyard lock finger.
Matt Haberman
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Re: Hobie 16

Post by Matt Haberman »

Bill,
Agreed, the hard braid luff rope is a must.

I have never witnessed it myself, but I have heard of issues where the finger of the Hook gets inside of the shackle hoop next to the head board and then rotating the mast doesn't help much.
Matt Haberman
Aquarius Sail Inc.
http://www.aquarius-sail.com
gahamby
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Posts: 252
Joined: July 24th, 2012, 7:02 am
Boat Make/Model: SuperCat 15#315
Location: Falls Church VA 22042

Re: Hobie 16

Post by gahamby »

Bill,
Your description is about what I imagined a reefing system would look like on a SC. Seems doable, still going to be involved.
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