A List of SC and ARC Firsts

[Bill Roberts]

From the technology and boat design and construction point of view the SCs and ARC boats are the best there are. They lead the fleet.

1. First beach cat to have a wave piercing foredeck/forward hull section design. This resulted in a major improvement in pitchpole resistance, 1976. Max hull width at 2/3rds max hull height with high arch foredeck. Hull drag increase is small when elliptical foredeck is submerged at speed. With flat foredecks, hull drag increases dramatically with foredeck being submerged and pitchpole follows immediately.

2. Squared off tips/ends on CBs and rudders for highest span effectiveness; something like square top mainsails except these designs came 16 years before square top sails.

3. Swept forward leading edge on CBs and rudders doesn't ventilate and lose directional control of boat at speed. Hobie 14s came out with swept aft rudders in the beginning and sailors would come back to shore with cramps in their forearms after about 10 minutes of sailing and their arm was tired and sore. The boat was too slow to ventilate the rudders at speed. Swept aft rudders give up mechanical advantage to the tiller and make steering require much force.

4.SCs were the first from the factory boats to come with nonskid under your feet where you stand to trapese.

5.First boat with carpet in the CB trunks to eliminate scratching and gouging surface of CBs when raising and lowering.

6. First boat with shroud levers to make self rescue possible and mast stepping and rig tightening easy.

7. First boat designed with mast section designed to prevent boat turtling.

8. At Yachting magazines One Of A Kind Regatta in 1980, SCs won the regatta and took home all the trophies. All of the California hot shots were there, National Champions in all of their classes. The whole Hobie Alter family was there. Randy Smyth and Jay Glazer were there sailing Prindles, Rany Hatfield was there. NACRA class champs were there sailing N5.2, N5.5 and 18 square. Skip Elliot was there, NACRA class sailmaker.
This was the last OOAK Regatta by Yachting Magazine. Why? After that display of performance by the other slow boat designs, they did not want to race again, no participation.

9.First 20ft beach cat to be rated faster than Olympic Tornado by US Sailing, lower PN.

10. First beach cat without dolphin stricker strut under main beam, SC17 and SC15.

11. First boat with self tacking jib and pelican stricker. Pelican stricker significantly increases jib aspect ratio and therefore windward sailing performance. The pelican stricker also lowers the spin pole and increases spin area.

12. First boat with square top sails. A free improvement in span effectiveness and boat performance/speed.

13. First beach cat with spins from the factory with pelican stricker, low spin pole position and higher aspect ratio jib and spin.

14new. First with mast "prebend". When I was first developing the spin on the RC27, even though the spins were not good
catamaran shape, I ran into the mast inverting problem . At first the spin halyard block was located at half the distance between the mast hounds and the top of the mast. Mast inverted in strong winds. Next ran spin halyard from mast top to rear beam as a test. No mast inversion but impractical, can't jibe. Next built spreaded bracket with outer ends swept aft 3 ins. behind the mast. This induced forward mast prebend. For the mast to invert or move toward inversion, the diamond tension automatically increased which tended to stop the mast from inverting. In very strong winds mast could still invert. Next lowered spin halyard block point on mast to 1/3rd the distance between the hounds and top of mast. Results, no more mast inversion. All of this development was done prior to any spin rigging going into production on any SC or ARC boat. This is an example of product quality for the buyers. "Solve all problems before you sell it to the public. "
Remember when the Inter 20s came out with spins and carbon masts were breaking right and left. They did not do their homework and dumped those problems on their boat buyers. It didn't matter; people still bought the boats.
Side note:
When Tom put "PREBEND" into production and word got out and other beach cats classes with spins began to use it,
so did the A cat class. I would go to races where there were A cats and there was much talk about PREBEND. A cat sailors were asking, "how much prebend should I run"? "How much spreader sweep back"? "What diamond tension should I run? On and on the questions came flying. Here is a fix for mast inversion for boats with spinnakers and the A cat class grabbed it up
and ran with it and they don't have spinnakers. There is an awful lot of tag a long coppy cat going on in the A cat class
and the sailors don't understand what and why they are doing it.

15. The only beach cat factory to "not" promote spin launchers. Small radius on the entry frame at mouth of sleeve tends to burn slits in spin cloth during fast retractions which results in many trips to the sailmaker for repairs and short life spinnakers. Therefore "not worth it". A roller on the aft side, load carrying side, of the entry mouth, frame/ring, might solve the problem. That is somebody elses job to make.

16. First and only factory to use all phil/truss head machine screws in laminated hull to hold hardware in place. No pop rivets in the hull. Pop rivets losen up and leak in time, low quality.

17. SCs and ARCs use NASA developed CB and rudder foil cross section shapes, low drag and max lift. Million dollar data available in NASA reports. All you have to do is use it. It is free, no cost.

18. All SC and ARC boats are built with highest strength, best properties, and highest cost materials, fiberglass cloth and or carbon cloth, laminating resin and core foam.

19. All aluminum extrusions are 6061T-6 alloy, the best, and are heavy duty anodized. No 6063 alloy used. That's the cheap stuff, junk on a boat around salt water.

20. All aluminum castings are ALMAG 35 alloy. Again the best properties and is expensive, but the best, 35K psi tensil strength as cast and excellent around salt water. Used for aircraft landing gears.

Note: The designer of the Team Phillips boat, the around the world race catamaran, was so impressed with the performance of the SC20 in the 1980 Around Texel race in Holland that he copied the wave piercing hull design of the SC20, elliptical hull cross sections, in his Team Phillips boat. Why didn't he copy a Hobie or a Prindle or a NACRA or a Tornado hull shape? He could have; why did he prefer the SC design???

Another note: Did you know that Juan Carlos, the King of Spain, bought a SC20 in the early 1980s? I wonder why he bought a SC when he could have bought a Hobie or Prindle or NACRA or any other beach cat he wanted to?

Summary: Most beach cats today have some form of a wave piercing bow/hull shape with self tacking jib and spin and square top main etc. They all copied SC and ARC products. With the leadership shown in SC and ARC products, why isn't the beach cat sailing public standing in line at the factory front door to order SC and ARC products???

[Bill Roberts]

Hey, what's going on? Why no responce? Any comments?
I was at the Steeplechase Race recently and there was an F18 next to us in the parking lot. I noticed the spin pole was supported up high at mid point directly at/to the forestay bridle. The rig could have had a pelican stricker of about 8 ins long or so between the apex of the forestay bridle and the spin pole, but it didn't. This would lower the spin pole and jib tack. For the same sail areas this would have increased the aspect ratios of the spin and jib. The boat would be faster. What's going on? Where have these people been? This is 1990s technology demonstrated by SC and ARC products.
If sailors really wanted an ARC18, Tom could build one in a heart beat. Take one foot off a SC19. Move the beam saddles
to fit the new rig. Use the ARC21 very high aspect ratio dagger boards located in front of the main beam. Set the length/area of the board to fit the sail area. If you want a reverse slope bow/stem, Tom can do that but it doesn't make any difference in hull drag or wave drag.
I don't understand what's going on. Sailors will buy F18s from a totally unknown foreign boat builder, possibly the first boat they have ever built, but sailors will not call Tom Haberman to see if he has a boat or would build them an F18.
Tom could also add a foot to the 17 and make similiar additions as mentioned above to build an 18 foot long boat.
What do beach cat sailors want? I'm lost! Maybe I'm not lost. SC and ARC products have always been a little more expensive, higher quality materials/boats, than other builders. Maybe beach cat sailors are responding to the lower price boats and that's what they buy. The fastest boat with top quality materials and sails and lowest price don't go together.

[DanBerger]

I don't know why Supercats/ARCs aren't more popular. I just don't get it. The ARC17 seems to be the ultimate beach cat that about anyone could sail. The 20s and larger are a bit intimidating, but they are pretty impressive. I suppose Hobie has the marketing side of the equation down.

I am a huge fan of my 15, the ultimate single -hander. Beach cat single hander, that is, you can't compete with A cats for sheer awesomeness.

One comment about your list, though--With all the space age technology with parts and design, why did the 20s get wooden bulkheads for the bow tangs??

Also, if Tom built a few F18s and raced them to prove they are better, I bet he would start getting orders. The F18s (and A cats) seem to gravitate to the latest, greatest design. There are a lot of people out there ready and willing to buy new boats (and spend a lot of money), but they have to be competitive--and competing. I vote that the ARC F18s have factory top-down furling spinnakers with the lower self tacking jibs. Is Tom even equipped to build a bunch of boats?

Lastly--How about building an A cat?? What about a C class? Bill, you have won a lot of beach cat races, why don't you show the C class guys a thing or two?

[Bill Roberts]

Dan, When SC20s were built by Formulae Racing Sailboats, Steve Edmonds and I, The 20 forestay chainplate bulkhead
was cut out and fitted in place carefully, all holes drilled and bulkhead not installed. Then the marine plywood bulkheads were given a heavy coat of resin and allowed to cure overnight. They were installed the next day. The only forestay bulkheads that I have heard of or seen fixed myself were Boston Whaler built boats. The bulkheads were installed as soon as fitted and holes drilled, bare wood. Thank you Boston Whaler. The Boston Whaler built SC20 hulls weigh about 20 pounds more per hull than the Formula SC20 hulls. The difference was due to laminator skill level.

[Bill Roberts]

Dan, A cats and C class boats?? I have lost one fortune building beach cats. I won't do it again.
I was foolish enough to think that if you built a better mouse trap, "the public will beat a path to my door".
I have designed and built the "better beach cat" but the public did not beat a path to my door.
Tom Haberman is building the boats today even better than I did but new boat sales are very slow.
The boats demonstrate superiority in every way but very few sales.

[DanBerger]

I guess that explains why my Boston Whaler SC20 needed the bulkheads replaced! They were a MESS.

And don't get me wrong on Tom's boat building ability--I was only saying that it seems to me that his shop isn't big enough nor does he have the manpower to crank out a lot of boats. Everything I have bought from him has been expertly machined and of top quality.

He talked me into getting a top-down furling spinnaker for my 15. It wasn't a hard sell. Are you going to add those to your ARC firsts list?

[Bill Roberts]

Hi Dan,
I tried a top down furler system last year. I think the system I tried was too small for the RC30 chute and it did not work well. I learned from that experience that I should use the next larger top down system for about $2500.00.
If I was doing bouy racing, I would get one. In distance racing with the chute going up and down one or two times in a 40 mile race, I think I can live without the system.
Tom has his boat manufacturing capability matched to the demand. That is good management. He has boat building tooling, techniques, etc years ahead of other builders. He can build the same boat stronger and lighter weight than any other boat builder, beach cat builder. If there was a large demand for one of his boats, he would hire and train the people. Having excess employees and no work is a sure way to go out of business fast.

[drjay]

I'm thinking that the reason there is not a line out the door at Aquarius is due in some part to economics. When it came time for my first cat purchase I looked at pretty much everything available.

In the end I was close to a Nacra 500. Due to poor communication on the part of the dealer I opted for an ARC 17. Yes I paid more. I believe I made the right choice. i researched how the ARC is put together. Proper aluminum, proper rigging and epoxy resin not cheaper vinyl ester.

In the end I paid a lot for my first beach cat and I imagine that not everybody is able to allocate funds as I did for a cat.

I could have had an H16 for several thousand dollars less.

I hate the cliche but in a sense you do get what you pay for.

Would an H16 have been fun to sail, yes but it is no ARC 17!!

I did wait about 6 months for my ARC 17 as opposed to buying a Hobie "off the showroom floor"

I am glad I waited for "my" boat.

There is a lot to be said for working directly with the builder and having it delivered to your door.

Tom and Nancy Haberman are top notch. As a new sailor he has spent time going over the rigging etc. He drove to Florida to deliver and we spent the better part of the day setting up the boat. Sadly we had little wind to sail that evening.

I have yet to sail the ARC but when I do I know I will be grinning from ear to ear.

Reason I have not sailed despite taking delivery about 3 weeks ago? well let's just say do not leave your sail bag in the bed of your truck without securing it. Lesson learned and waiting on a new mainsail.

Oddly sail has not appeared on craigs list, ebay or local garage sales.

Back on point;

I knew I was buying a "hand crafted cat utilizing top of the line parts with attention to detail.

it was/is worth a few thousand more, at least in my book.



I like the small operation despite the waiting period. it is nice to know i can call Tom anytime and he will answer the phone and walk me through the mast stepping procedure or explain what the "purple line" gets attached to

As I said at the beginning in my opinion economics plays large role when it comes time to purchase a cat. I am not suggesting the ARC is overpriced. you pay for quality !!

i think that if a potential buyer were to demo an ARC and a say Hobie side by side they would spend a bit more for the ARC.

I don't imagine there are demo days for cats similar to what we have for golf clubs or kayaks.

A test ride is all it would take. I will be giving test rides once i get my new maim sail. Let's see if i can convert a few sailors to the ARC camp

[havliii]

(Combining two threads here .............. read at your own risk)

Bill, being adequate suits 90-95% of the people. This may be a sad commentary, but it is largely true. Take any hobby or sport, more junk equipment is sold than really good equipment. Most folks only want the label and not the hard work that goes with being truly good at something. In the distant past, I was a kayaker at the 'world class elite level' (no brag, just a fact), I have met lots of folks (at social events) who tell me that they 'kayak' without knowing my history and proceed to describe their experience and boat. Most of them use boats from Gander Mountain or Sports Authority or (name one) any local outlet store. These boats are total junk, but they do meet the needs of the buyer, which is to go out maybe 5 times a season and say, "I can kayak." This applies to a great part of the sailing community as well.

How many days do you think that a typical catamaran is used in a season? (I am guessing less than 10.) My Supercat 20 which I bought in Minnesota probably had less than 250 days of use in its entire 27 years of existence. (this is nearly new in my book) This is also why you can find great boats at a mere fraction of the cost of a new boat. A very large percentage of all catamarans spend their days in the woods on trailers. Why? because after the initial thrill is gone and the hard work becomes apparent, most folks move on to something else.

I think Dan got it right

The getaways are party barges and I think the deciding factor in building them was that they were mostly rentals and needed to be bullet proof. Round bottoms or 'V" bottoms like the 16 wouldn't work so a nice, beefy skeg would give it something to sit on. That's at least the way I see it

I have sailed a Getaway and they are fun boats with wings, built in cup holders and coolers. They aren't performance boats by far, but comfortable. They are HEAVY!! We do a distance race in the Outer Banks and they let the Getaways race. Their handicap is so high that we finish the race and an hour later, all the Getaways show up and win the race!

The Get-a-Way is a boat that a large percentage of the population can return to point A on. i.e. They can make it go and thusly, 'they are sailors!' They get the label which is all that they really want, not the experience, the education or the hard work that goes with being a 'real' sailor. I have met and sold boats to many of these types. This is not necessarily a bad thing nor am I judging, it is just a different segment of the market. I call these folks, the 'Rosie Ruiz types' they want to jump in at the finish line of the Boston Marathon and claim to have 'won!'

I can't remember who first said, 'the masses are asses' but it is true. The mass market is where the money is and the best design is not going to win that race. That race is won by the best 'mass marketers.'

to be continued......................

[whalerman]

Now I know why the mast on the 17 is so large in cross section. It is a giant float! Cool.

It is ugly ugly wintertime here in Western New York. Time to think about the little tings that need to be done to get the fleet ready for next season.

The Montauk lifting harness needs repair.
A dock line needs to be replaced.
The steering needs lubrication.

The Supercat 17 needs new rudder pins and a new paddle.
The mooring could use a new line.
Is this the year for a self-tacking jib setup?

[DanBerger]

Yes, make it the year for the self-tacking jib! It is the best thing I have done to my boat and I love it!

Seriously, do it. Don' worry about the price, just call Tom and order the kit.

[Bill Roberts]

To Havliii,
Just because a boat is built for the masses, It doesn't have to be poorly designed. For example, if the Getaway aft skeg was on the front of the boat up near the bow, then the boat would experience some form of sharred lift and it would tack much better and sail better to windward. The forward/bow sked would take the abuse and wear as the boat sails
upon the beach. The hulls would probably last longer before the plastic wears through at the bow. The boat would not cost one dime more to make.

[havliii]

To Havliii,
Just because a boat is built for the masses, It doesn't have to be poorly designed. For example, if the Getaway aft skeg was on the front of the boat up near the bow, then the boat would experience some form of sharred lift and it would tack much better and sail better to windward. The forward/bow sked would take the abuse and wear as the boat sails upon the beach. The hulls would probably last longer before the plastic wears through at the bow. The boat would not cost one dime more to make.

The performance difference would not matter to the majority of the end users. The design has to be sold until the molds are 'paid' for, simple logic. One off 'design test' boats are expensive to build and tweak. Selling bad design is not difficult for a mega marketer. (think Microsoft) Cheap kayaks sell because they are cheap, the buyers are satisfied with the design because they have no clue what good design is or how it should perform.

'Educating' a customer is not as easy as selling them the inferior product. Put yourself in the shoes of the salesman they spend hours and hours educating a customer only to have them go buy online or from another shop. The Hobie name is trusted and the product is not horrible, the salesman only needs to close the deal, not wax poetic on the finer points of the shared lift concept. Educating the customer wins in the end (think Apple) but it takes decades and money, gobs of money.

Going back to my previous point, most Hobie Get-a-Way customers sail 5-10 days a season (my guestimate) they are quite content getting back to point A. Unless they make sailing their passion the quality of the boat they sail doesn't impact their overall satisfaction.

A roto molded Supercat 17 would probably sell well if the dealerships were in place, the price point competitive, the salesmen educated and the brochures printed. I don't have the 60K for the molds or the 200K for the first 1000 hulls. (500 boats)

[Bill Roberts]

Havliii,
"One off test boats are expensive to build and tweek". In something as simple as beachcat, it is not necessary
to build one offs to test and tweek. All SC and ARC products were designed via computer math model and performance calculated before the first boat was ever built. Each boat has sailed to its design/calculated PN or demonstrated even slightly better performance than its design PN. No prototypes were built.
BTW it is the boats built "after the molds are paid for" that make the big profits.

[havliii]

Havliii,
"One off test boats are expensive to build and tweek". In something as simple as beachcat, it is not necessary
to build one offs to test and tweek. All SC and ARC products were designed via computer math model and performance calculated before the first boat was ever built. Each boat has sailed to its design/calculated PN or demonstrated even slightly better performance than its design PN. No prototypes were built.
BTW it is the boats built "after the molds are paid for" that make the big profits.

Awesome! For my dollar the Supercat 20 is probably the best CRUISING catamaran I could ever hope to want or be designed. Nothing goes through the slop and chop (that I sail in) like the 20. It is a brutish bull of a boat, overweight, superstrong, built like a tank, I love her. She's no race boat but I could care less. Having tweaked the boat she doesn't meet any standards of the original 'one design.' She has a nice turn of speed, but her strength is what I seek and admire most. I have pounded the ever lovin' snot out of this boat. She takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin.' But I am not THE MARKET, if you want to sell boats you have to build what 'the market' is buying.

The major market is in 'poly' boats, roto molding. Maintenance is not what the average joe wants to do, glass/foam boats require maintenance and vigilance. Put some wing seats, a mast float, and cup holders on a roto molded 17, BINGO!! We're talking hot cakes....................