Bill Roberts!! Old Hull ID Numbers

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Kevin Keller
Professional
Posts: 338
Joined: September 24th, 2006, 2:56 am
Boat Make/Model: SC-20, ARC22
Location: Honolulu

Bill Roberts!! Old Hull ID Numbers

Post by Kevin Keller »

Bill,

My SC20 was built circa 1980 and it has far as I know has always had a HIN of FMS00067580 on the registration. I recently received a letter from the DLNR (Dept of Land & Natural Resources) who I have to register the boat with that the USCG does not recognize my hull numbers and is giving me a new number that the CG can put into a database. If I do not put new ID plates on my boat they will not allow me to register the boat next year.

Was this the correct hull number you put on the boats at the time? It is imprinted in the hull.

I guess I will have to make a new plate and mount it. Douches.

Kevin
Kevin Keller
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Joined: September 24th, 2006, 2:56 am
Boat Make/Model: SC-20, ARC22
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Re: Bill Roberts!! Old Hull ID Numbers

Post by Kevin Keller »

Some of you with older boats like mine might want to read this. Sounds like I am not the only one that will have to deal with this. I have been corresponding with the USCG regarding the request to change my hull numbers. Start from the bottom.



Sounds perfect. Make sure that you keep the state's letter on file for your records in case you do eventually want to sell the boat. Also, maybe keep all of your registration receipts from here on out as well. This gives you plenty of documentation. The requirements for affixing a HIN are located in 33 CFR 181.29 (c) & (d). I have copied them below as well.

(c) Each hull identification number must be carved, burned, stamped, embossed, molded, bonded, or otherwise permanently affixed to the boat so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious. If the number is on a separate plate, the plate must be fastened in such a manner that its removal would normally cause some scarring of or damage to the surrounding hull area. A hull identification number must not be attached to parts of the boat that are removable.

(d) The characters of each hull identification number must be no less than one-fourth of an inch high.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Keller [mailto:kevkeller11@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2015 8:12 AM
To: HQS-SMB-MICAPP
Subject: Re: Hull Number Change Request

CWO2 William Hillyer,

Thank you for responding to my enquiry.

I have a have a number stamp set that I plan on stamping a strip of aluminum and epoxying it to my transom then. Does that sound acceptable?

Thanks again,

M. Kevin Keller




On Mar 11, 2015, at 2:06 AM, HQS-SMB-MICAPP <MICAPP@uscg.mil> wrote:

Mr. Keller,

The state is absolutely correct in its action. States have been typically lenient on the formatting of the HIN numbering in the past. The face value as given by the manufacturer was accepted; whether it was correct or not. The HIN that was provided for your vessel is not correct and the state of Hawaii is offering you the solution. Recently the states, in conjunction with my office, is cracking down on improper HIN formatting of vessels. Additionally we are better enforcing this at the manufacturer level as well. Having the improper HIN is not fault of yours...additionally, it will in no way affect the resale of your vessel. You already have documentation stating that Hawaii has changed the HIN. In addition, your new HIN will be entered into our databases. This is something that my office sees frequently. I recommend that you make the changes as stated. Most people would use an engraved aluminum plate and rivet the new HIN to the starboard quarter of your vessel. Hope this helps.

CWO2 William Hillyer
Department of Homeland Security
U. S. Coast Guard Headquarters
Safety Compliance Officer
Office of Auxiliary & Boating Safety
Office: 202-372-1077
Email: william.y.hillyer@uscg.mil
www.uscgboating.org




-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Keller [mailto:kevkeller11@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:04 PM
To: HQS-SMB-MICAPP
Subject: Hull Number Change Request

Hi,

I recently received a letter from my state’s Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR) advising me that the HIN on my catamaran is not legal to today’s standards and they want to change it otherwise I will not be able to renew the registration for 2016. They want to change it to HAZ1737EE080 citing the USCG-2003-14963.

My sail boat was built circa 1980 by either Supercat or Boston Whaler. It is a catamaran and includes the number FMS000675580 imprinted in the fiberglass on the right rear transom. I have contacted Tom Haberman ((651) 462-7245) at Aquarius Catamarans and he did some research with what records he was passed on when he bought the company. As far as he can tell the number was USCG legal at the time of sale as others have the same HIN format. At first he thought someone was pulling my leg. He thinks the state’s interpretation of the docket is wrong and does not recommend me changing it as I might have difficulties selling the boat in the future. I can forward his emails if you would like.

I have the last 2 or 3 bills of sale in my possession showing the HIN. I have done a little research and it sounds like it is extremely hard to get a HIN changed once it leaves the factory. Can you please look at the included letter from the DLNR and let me know what I should do?

Thank you,

Michael Kevin Keller
fjviola
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Re: Bill Roberts!! Old Hull ID Numbers

Post by fjviola »

Kevin

Simply another example of what happened when we allowed the Federal Gov't in the early 2000's to convert WalMart Greeters into national security ... ie, Homeland Security, TSA, et-al :roll:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." :shock: Lord Acton

Franklin Viola
ARC 2101
Kevin Keller
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Re: Bill Roberts!! Old Hull ID Numbers

Post by Kevin Keller »

Yes Franklin, it is a DISEASE in our government these days. Everyone wants a piece of everything to justify their jobs. Government just keeps growing... along with their reach.

After hiking Kokohead a couple of days ago, my wife and I had lunch on one of the waterways out here. The DLNR was out in their boat looking like SWAT. Seriously??? Are they going to save the world? I doubt it. What a complete waste. There are probably 3 different government agencies doing the same job there and for absolutely no reason. There is no justification for them or the other agencies to be wasting our taxpayer's money for that.

This cancer needs to be removed. I don't see it happening under our current or probable future leaders.

Here is a message I sent back to him but no response. Maybe I should ask for the officer in charge, it really is a stupid change I think.


CWO2 William Hillyer,

I have to say though that this changing of HIN's could easily lead to fraud. Theoretically I could grab another boat, deface the old numbers and put a new number on it, just like I will have to do to mine. Who's to say that this other boat is not mine then?

Whatever I do to my boat will never look as good as the original numbers embossed into the hull. I am including a picture of the transom when I did some repairs several years ago. The number plate that I will manufacture will most likely look like a cheap add-on. Obviously I will have the supporting paperwork but like I said I could grab anyone's boat and remove their numbers then add mine. Thus defeating the whole purpose of having a HIN.

I realize you probably had nothing to do with this legislation however I hope you can see where fraud could easily be perpetrated. I'm not quite sure they thought this out properly.

Thank you,

Kevin Keller

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