Beach Cat Spinnakers

[SC15Av8or]

Bill .....Good to know!!! So when can we hope to see some thing for the SC15-SC19 designs !!!

[Bill Roberts]

Professional,
There are self tacking jib kits and with sails from the factory for SC15s, SC17s, SC19s, SC20s, ARC22s, ARC27s and ARC30s.
The are spinnaker pole and spinnaker sail kits complete with halyards and halyard blocks, cleats, sheets and sheet rachet blocks, etc, everything you need to put a spinnaker on a SC15, SC17, SC19, SC20, and ARC22s, ARC27s and ARC30s.
Tom Haberman at the factory is your man. He has already done this, put spinnakers on, all of these boats. The best design, cut, of spinnaker sails for these boats has already been worked out, tried and tested. You do not have to waste your errort, money and time to do this. The development work has already been done for you.
You don't have to spend 5 to 10 thousand dollars on your own to work out all the rigging and sail details and spend a summer or two learning the best way to do this and the best spinnaker sail cut. This research work and trial and error work has already been done for you. The factory and I have already spent the time, money and effort to put self tacking jibs and the best cut spinnakers on the SC and ARC product lines.
BTW, Tom and I have also experimented with spinnaker launcher and retractor systems. They work well about 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time you are likely to burn a streek in the chute during a fast retraction. Then on Monday morning you can take your chute to the sailmaker for repair. ( See U S Patent No. 3,310,018, March 21, 1967, Spinnaker Launching and Retracting Means)

[whalerman]

So...we will not be seeing a roller furling spinnaker setup from Aquarius? The launching systems now available seem like a pain.

[Bill Roberts]

Hello professional,
I saw spin roller furling systems demonstrated this year at the Miami Boat Show. All of the bugs are not worked out of that syatem yet. What I saw was the tack corner and foot of the sail being rolled up around a piece of 1/8th " diameter wire. In a real life spin rollup with the sail luffing and the wind blowing across the sail, that part of the sail rolling up on that 1/8 dia wire will have a very high tension load in it. Enough to stretch the cloth or even tear it. I saw another demonstration of the system where the problem had been realized and they had put tennis balls along the wire about every 4ft to add some bulk, diameter, for the rest of the sail to roll up on. The open wire with tennis balls looked very draggy in the wind. I think this may be a cruising boat thing only.
Bill

[whalerman]

I sail alone about half the time and with one other person most of the rest of the time. I guess I will wait to see what develops.

[bogie52]

Hi all,
Bill thanks for still being on here to teach us all.
Tom, Do you read this? I think photos and prices for spinnaker sails and kits for the old boats should be posted on the main website. A lot of us surf the web at late hours when your business is closed. If at 2 pm I see something cool with a price I can cover I might just buy it then and there. No remembering to call during business hours etc . I doubt that many Supercat owners think such designs have been worked out.
Professional, You are concerned about solo sailing with a spin. The NACRA f17 and the Hobie FX 1 both are one man boats intended to be raced with a spin. Last year I sailed the FX 1 and found the spinnaker handled pretty well with its one line to raise and douse the sail into its sleeve. I did find that excessively loose spin sheet lines could be run over. On a boat with 2 sailors I think the crew could more easily focus on dropping the sail while the helm is handled to keep the loose sail centered in front. That sail has been raised and lowered a couple dozen times with out damage . With the single line system raising the sail is really easy. It works so well you want to do it over and over just to see how slick it is.
Bill, (btw, I'm the guy in NY that bought the RC 30 setup from you), since they are closer to our boats than the ac72s are, I have been curious about the Marstrom 20 and 32 ft boats that are sailed with a main and(on the 32) roll up downwind sail but no jib. This seems so easy and clean! Does it just work up and downwind? The Marstroms in the Fla distance races always seem to have a jib. I wondered if the extra speed the curved dagger bds might give (if there is less hull in the water) enables the flatter, rollable reacher instead of a spinnaker. I believe those boats are sold more as pure race boats than ARC/ Supercats so compromises that favor the race course must have been taken.

[Bill Roberts]

Hello bogie,
The M20s in Florida have never used jibs in any type of race. They have a split forestay and no jib tack point like an A Cat. It would take much rerigging to put a jib on an M20. Then, the hulls were not designed for the "pull the bows together loads" that come with a jib.

The M32 is an all out racing platform. It uses winches for sail control with the 50ft mast and large mainsail area. It uses a gennaker rather than a flat spinnaker. The jury may be out on that final decision. The boat has no front tramp for pleasure sailing. The M32 that was in Miami back in Feb and March turned over, stuck the mast in the bottom of Biscayne Bay and broke the mast. The mast is rigged to be not watertight, therefore is designed to sail in deep water only.
The curved foils on M20 and M32 do not lift the boat/hull clear of the water. Any benefit is not observable. M20 owners say the curved boards do great things. The boat's PN has not changed in the past few years. The boat came to the US with a PN of 54. Today it is 58.
The M20 is a PN ripoff on all of us. Start with a Tornado, PN is 59: 1.Reduce the boat weight 150 pounds to 225 pounds.
2. Increase mast height to 36ft from 31ft.
3. Working sail area is greater than Tornado.
4. Spinnaker sail area is larger than Tornado.
5. Add curved boards from the factory.
All of these changes together are worth 1% point in PN, 59 vs 58? This is equal to a 36 second advantage in an hour of racing for the M20 over a Tornado.
Conclusion: Either the M20 PN is very much in error or the M20 is a lousey design. If the PN difference of 1% point is correct, then rest of us should quit trying to make boats go faster because it can't be done.

[SC15Av8or]

The M20 is a PN ripoff on all of us. Start with a Tornado, PN is 59: 1.Reduce the boat weight 150 pounds to 225 pounds.
2. Increase mast height to 36ft from 31ft.
3. Working sail area is greater than Tornado.
4. Spinnaker sail area is larger than Tornado.
5. Add curved boards from the factory.
All of these changes together are worth 1% point in PN, 59 vs 58? This is equal to a 36 second advantage in an hour of racing for the M20 over a Tornado.
Conclusion: Either the M20 PN is very much in error or the M20 is a lousey design. If the PN difference of 1% point is correct, then rest of us should quit trying to make boats go faster because it can't be done.

Great point there Bill and pure facts no car sales man BS !! So I will just stick to my SC15 and SC19 both built in 1985. Enjoy days like yesterday on the Potomac River sailing with a pod of dolphins and in 3 foot waves (small craft advisory) in 13kts gusting to 17.5knt on a SC15 with a PN of 69 or 77. Heck the dolphins did not even ask what my PN number was.

[Bill Roberts]

The list of features difference between a Tornado and an M20 is correct. My pointing out that the PN difference between the two boats is only 1% point is a joke and it also shows the disfunction of US Sailing. We all know these things improve boat performance by much more than 1% point. A 150 pound reduction in the weight of any beach cat is worth at least 1% point and probably 2% points. The 5ft taller mast with increased sail area in working sail area and spin on the M20 is worth another point or two. The M20 owners rant and rave about the improved performance with the curved boards; these must be worth another point or two. The difference in PN performance between a Tornado and an M20 should be somewhere between 3 and 6 % points.
The price ratio of an M20 over a Tornado is a factor of like two. Twice the money for 1% point in PN is no sales point.