New Sails - Help, Tom!!??

[DanBerger]

It is getting time to get new sails and we all have been looking. I can't get a good used one for my 15 and I'm having a HECKUVA time finding one for my 20. We also have a 'newbie' convert to a SC17 from a Hobie 16 and he is looking for sails, too.

So, Tom, I want to call you up and order a new square top main! BUT, I want it in COLORED Heavy weight Dacron!! You mentioned that I could get a new sail in any color I wanted as long as it was white (channeling Henry Ford, here).

I don't want to go to another sail maker because you have designed sails specifically for Supercats and I want that technology. Just in colors. I think I'm speaking for about everyone with a 20 footer or less out there.

Is there any way for you to 'approve' a design with your loft to make custom sails in colors?

[Mac M]

I agree. Unless I'm getting the laminate material sail, I like color. The colorful beach cats sails are awesome, one of the things I like about them.

[Mac M]

At the very least, make Dan a set of the 'Horny' Caliente sails he likes so much

[Bill Roberts]

The stretch characteristic of the sailcloth is an important characteristic used in the development of any sail. With the square top sail design, this is even more important. With stretchy sailcloth and the square top sail design, the leech in the upper section of the sail will blow open prematurely and the boat will not point well.

[DanBerger]

Bill,

I'm not sure that I follow about the stretchy sailcloth and the top of the sail opening up too early. I guess I am not understanding the effect on pointing ability, too--could you please explain?

Also, what would batten tension on the top (diagonal square top) batten do to change things??

[Bill Roberts]

Hi Dan,
WE could sit down at a table with a pad of paper and draw pictures and talk for an hour or two
about how the loads travel through a sail and what happens as the cloth stretches and the mast bends
and the sail shape changes etc.
Tom and I always strive to advise sailors to buy the best performance sails available because that is usually what they want.
The advice that Tom hands out is based on experience. He spends hours on the phone helping new sail owners
from various other sail makers solve problems that never should have happened.
If you want Caliente colored sails , go for it! I'm sure the colored Dacron sailcloth today is stronger and less stretchy than it was 20 years ago when I worked with it. Use the factory sailmaker. He will only use the top quality colored Dacron sail cloth, not the cheap stuff, and he will make you the best Caliente sails that can be built. The factory sailmaker has been Tornado class National Champion and U S Olympic representative and Ice Boat World Champion several times. The best sailmakers are sailboat racers and this guy is a World Class Sailboat Racer. Tom works with this guy very closely and all detail appointments on the SC and ARC sails are perfect.
A stiff gaff batten will flatten the top of the sail and a bendy gaff batten will put more shape in the top of the sail.

[DanBerger]

Tom has talked to me at length about the sail cloth and I appreciate and respect his opinion on the subject--as I do yours, Bill. I understand that Tom wants to sell the best most performance sails that he can, I mean, he has an excellent(!!) reputation to uphold.

Some of us are just willing to give up some performance for looks, that's all. That's why I went to Tom first-- I had to ask.

And, I think you missed the conversation about the 'Caliente' sails. Mac might be the only one on this forum that knows I have a completely unnatural hatred of red boats, and red sails are kind of on the same page. He was teasing me about that sail pattern because I went to Mexico and used the word, 'caliente' as I was taught here in America, but now... It doesn't really mean the same thing.

I'm a Fresco fan!

[Bill Roberts]

Dan,
I prefer Fresco sail colors also, cool colors.

[Bill Roberts]

Dan,
Relative to your comment about Tom wanting you to by sails that will uphold the SC/ARC reputation.
NUMBER ONE PRIORITY, "TOM WANTS YOU TO BE PLEASED WITH THE NEW SAIL".
Tom has spent hours on the phone trying to straighten out sail messes people have gotten into when they bought sails from XYZ Sailmaker. Problems like, the sail won't go up the mast.
Sailmaker tells customer "something is wrong with the mast".
Customer calls Tom. "What is wrong with the SC mast". "The sail won't go up".
Tom Responds: "The bolt rope is the wrong size and or the sail has too much luff round or the battens are too still or possibly all three". Then Tom tries to explain this to the customer who doesn't understand the problem and possible solution.
Then customer has the sailmaker call Tom. Then Tom explains everything all over again to the sailmaker. In conclusion the sailmaker says to Tom, "I made sails like this for other beach cats and they worked fine". All of this takes hours of Tom's time and the boat owner spends weeks without a satisfactory sail. Usually the customer has to pay more to get the sail fixed and it can take two or three cycles of fixing to get the sail so that it works.
Dan, this is why Tom wants you to buy factory sails. Factory sails will go up and down the mast, the halyard lock will work/ the headboard is in the right place, grommets are in the right places for the downhaul, the sail workmanship will be beautiful, the sail shape will be perfect and YOU will be very satisfied with the sail. This is why Tom wants you to buy factory sails, CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!!!

[DanBerger]

Bill,

I have bought factory sails from Tom, a spinnaker and self tacking jib. I have been very pleased with both! That's why at the beginning of this thread, I went to him to see if he could work out some kind of factory colored sails. I understand the time it takes and the frustration of trying to figure out someone else's messed up rig! I do a lot of that myself, and I try not to waste Tom's time.

[Bill Roberts]

Dan, colored sailcloth is fine. It does not have the strength of white cloth. The max strength of sailcloth is not tested until
you are sailing in strong winds and max righting moment. The sailcloth is not going to tear. It is going to stretch with many repeated uses in heavy air.
The leech will stretch and flutter and the sail will gradually become flatter. A colored sail will not have the useful life a white Dacron sail will have. If you just want to "knock around sail" get colored sails. If you want to race, get white Dacron sails. Knowing this, do whatever you want to do.